Thank you for the fresh quotation which i hadn’t seen in advance of
I am not sure should you have accessibility Douglas Richardson’s Plantagnet Origins or not, since it is authored as the a resource to possess Us americans that have colonial forefathers of Plantagenet descent. The guy gets as one of their proofs one to Joanna is actually the fresh mom away from Gwladus Ddu the truth that Llewelyn provided the fresh qualities away from Knighton and you can Norton castles during the Shropshire so you can Ralph Mortimer whenever he and you will Gwladus was married. It would were illegal to possess Llewelyn giving Joanna’s property in order to a keen illegitimate daughter (otherwise person who wasn’t a child from Joanna). This new features of Norton and you may Knighton stayed in the Mortimer nearest and dearest thereafter. The newest estimate is actually, “Whenever the newest Queen give House so you can one which have an excellent lady off their kindred when you look at the honest relationships, while the woman dyeth instead of matter, the man in the Leaders circumstances should maybe not hold it having their life, since lady was the cause of new present.” This means that, the brand new services would have reverted returning to new crown prior to it could have been provided to an infant who had been not Joanna’s.
Hey, Marilyn, I didn’t get access to the brand new Plantaganet Ancestry because of the Doug Richardson, however, did have access to the numerous discussions related to him and you can his concepts together with other genealogists (specific getting your, however, many plus up against). I think, whenever i manufactured in my previous report, one just what shifts it in my situation(Joanna as being the mother out-of Gwladus), is the transfer of the features you explore in order to Ralph de Mortimer up on their ed two of their people ‘John’ and you will ‘Joan.’ I cannot suppose in the event that Gwladus was the new ded their particular pupils thus. In spite of the objections within eminent genealogists We mention significantly more than, there can be a standard consensus you to Gwladus Ddu will be reasonably identified as new daughter off Llywelyn ab Iorwerth by Joanna, child (subsequently legitimised) of John, King out of The united kingdomt. I’d like to capture it opportunity to trust Sharon (into the an email to me) you to definitely Llywelyn’s daughter Gwenllian was because of the Tangwystyl and not Joanna, and so being bloodstream sis so you can Gruffudd. I legs so it partly on the today’s list used in ‘Regal or other Historic letters Illustrative of reign from Henry 111,’ edited of the Rev. Walter W. Shirley, vol step one. Towards users 500-503 is the transcript from exclusive page old Marshall, Earl out-of Pembroke, so you can Queen Henry 111 kissbrides.com his response. Contained in this page, Marshall covers his siege of the castles of Crum, Kilmore and you can O’Realy. He listing the people the guy found in the castle O’Realy when they surrendered, it included: “…uxor Wilelmi de- Lascy, filia Leulini, soror Griffini de patre et matre, et uxor Thomae Blund fratis dicti Willelmi, mais aussi mater dictorum Willelmi ainsi que Thomae ….” I’m informed that the ensures that we have right here Gwenllian, child away from Prince llywelyn, which is apparently named ‘brother off Gruffudd.’ As you may know Gruffudd to be the latest illegitimate son out of Llywelyn, it’s drawn you to definitely ‘de patre mais aussi matre’ means Gwenllian and you may Gruffudd was complete blood cousin and you can aunt. Had Gwenllian been Joanna’s child and this King Henry’s relative, definitely Marshall might have said on that reality? That it inability of de- Lacy’s spouse since king’s niece, are pulled as close certain evidence one to Gwenllian was not the new child of king’s sis Joanna.
Such characteristics was in fact element of Joanna’s maritagium out of their own father King John
Ken: Thanks for one to mention of the Gwenllian. I am definitely not a specialist genealogist, however, I really do many look on my own outlines. I believe a few of the “pros” are incredibly envious and frustrated of each most other (at the least it seems that ways in a number of of everything it article). Discover points that we have been just not probably discover with confidence in the people in the MA because they failed to remain public information instance i create now, therefore genealogists and historians need to use their best judgment in sorting something away. Indeed, public record information try a pretty “new” design – of numerous states within the united states don’t keep facts away from births and deaths up until the very early 1900’s. We belong to several origin societies in which I’ve had so you can establish 11 or 12 years, and you may trust in me it is not easy. Thus i very take pleasure in the trouble of researching MA ancestors. (And the sad thing is the fact that records that are available to the MA are of your own royalty and nobility – absolutely nothing at all on the prominent anybody).